Hi guys, this is as much an introduction as it is some advice on moving on with life and finding love, etc.
The gist of my starting off point was after a couple of failures in high school, I was unable to even be in the vicinity of a woman whom I found attractive. Your starting off point could be better or worse, that isn't relevant. I'm not pulling the gals left and right just yet, but there have been nights where I did, and I realize that despite a lot of the negativity being espoused in these forums, the most unattractive trait the whole lot of you have is some unseen mental elements, which I shall attempt to shed some light on. It's an ongoing and strange journey, filled with frustration and success (two sides of the same coin: either is a recipe for your breaking out of this prison). I find myself relapsing, reemerging better, relapsing again--don't think that after you've broken through that seemingly unbreachable barrier and approached and eventually slept with women that subsequent women will be any easier, that your problems are over, etc. There's a reason that people with this problem don't often grow past it over time, but rather like an alcoholic or a person with a lot of anger find themselves repeating the same pattern throughout life. I've been struggling with these issues for ten years, and have been aware of you fellows for at least five of those, probably longer, but having read yours posts, I felt that to become part of this community was not so much an honest attempt to find support and get advice to get better, but rather a place where I'd go if I decided to give up and find people to complain with. However, whether someone does or does not do this, again, is not relevant, as I've found things.
I can assure you that most of us, including myself, never get entirely "over it", else I wouldn't be here more then likely.
It's like being horribly raped as a child, but the abuse is mental and emotional, and comes oftentimes from ones peers.
You cannot reasonably expect such a person to ever develop the same trust as others, who did not have this happen
to them, to achieve the same level of trust. The real issue is that no one recognizes it as a mental disorder of sorts and even if they do it, makes no difference to the females we try to date or get to know. So we make do the best we can.
I will try to convey my 'discovery' initially through an abstract proposition, as it's not quite possible to convey this entirely through words, but the right description can help you tailor your own answer to your problems, which is to a large extent emotional, and in any case, unique and personal to you. Why do you feel anxious around women? You might have a plethora of reasons; you might say 'you just do'. In any case, I'd like to propose that the reason is simple: you want something from them, be it to behave a certain way, do a certain thing, refrain from doing a certain thing, whatever, and so you attempt--whether consciously or unconsciously--to manipulate their behavior or avoid them to stay away from the feelings associated with failure. The reason you want this particular thing from them (this can extend to nervousness with people, in general) is not that you technically want them to behave or not behave in a certain way towards you, but rather you want the feeling that comes with them behaving or not behaving in a certain way. Whether it's to feel loved, to feel safe, whatever, you've developed a strategy to essentially protect something. It can get quite deep when you get into it. For instance, in my case, I wanted to avoid the feeling of rejection, but it took me a long while to realize that I also didn't like myself, or, at least what came out of my mouth, and didn't want women to be receptive to me--there was also the matter of not 'deserving' them, etc. The point was, I had, and have, a list of priorities in which certain emotions need to be secured ordinally, with preference going towards not being humiliated or
seen as inferior, in my case, which is not very conducive to sharing myself with a woman, or anyone, for that matter.
The unconscious mind, or Id, is a very tricky thing, IMO. Some people, like Tony Robbins, blames all our troubles on "wrong thinking". You probably saw this hypocrite if you saw the movie "Shallow Hal" where the character is hypnotized into thinking that fat women are skinny and ugly people are beautiful.
I can assure you that some what what Robbins says is true IRT other parts of my life, as a top tier winner in many off-road dirt bike motorcycle races, where you must believe that you can win in order to do so. Problem is that motorcycles are not females with a bad attitude.
As far as hypnotism goes, it simply doesn't work at all in about 20 percent of the population, including myself. I have tried to overcome LS in the past using it, but it was mostly just time and knowledge that got me out of the worst of the mire, not "positive thinking" or any other claptrap that people like Tony Robbins make lots of $$$ preaching about.
BTW, just look at Mr. Robbins. He is a tall, dark, handsome RICH man who most women are going to flock too. A total hypocrite, if you will.
I've got some quasi-bad news: you can't simply say, 'oh, that was silly; I'll just stop doing that now'--no, what's buzzing about in your head that we call thoughts don't really have much say in this matter, otherwise, the bulk of you would probably have sorted out this business, already. The issue is that your subconscious continues to instinctively behave in a habitual manner, which does work and does convey a benefit to you, whether you know it or not. The 'trick', as it were, is to accept and experience these emotional pinings and rewards at a more intense level. Stop using the internet, turn off the TV, even books and radio are out: listen to your thoughts and feelings, don't judge them, just experience them as intensely as possible. Feel yourself either wanting acceptance, or whatever you want (sometimes, the question of what you want is hard--DON'T brush this off: it took me about three months to figure out what I 'really' wanted, as I was so disconnected from myself by then), in my case, I felt this desire to have other people approve of me to such a ridiculous extent, that my subconscious, or whatever you'd call it, finally saw the futility of my strategy and moved onto a new one--not necessarily one that solves your issues with women, but maybe with people in a general manner, maybe you'll find yourself behaving slightly more boldly, maybe you'll simply be more comfortable in your skin. Try to let the emotions out and feel them intensely, but also try to maintain an awareness of where they're coming from, and how practical is it. In terms of social anxiety that I once had (complete with relapses and successes till finally I was always entirely at ease--side note: my behavior changed in virtually no way, but my motivations did, and people's responses to my once rejected behavior was overwhelmingly positive) I felt and saw quite clearly that what I wanted was for everyone to look at me and praise me for everything I said or didn't say, to be both acknowledged and constantly reassured that they liked, approved, and envied what they saw--it was really quite clearly ridiculous. But rather than push this desire away, I maintained my awareness of it and let myself feel it completely. Eventually, my feelings themselves started to shift, realizing how impossible and ridiculous my desires were, and I simply stopped caring. I'm not sure where the self-assurance now comes from, but my feeling is that if people reject me for being 100% myself around them, well, either screw 'em, or we're simply not compatible (nothing wrong with that).
Well you are certainly correct about my mind giving me a benefit, beyond the fact that I was lucky and have a high IQ.
My mind has saved me lots of money by knowing that women can be real evil bitches, as well as very good companions.
The trick is to find a compatible women both in IQ, status, wealth, beliefs and looks, else most relationships these days are doomed and the man pays the price, no matter what. So far that has eluded me, with pussy being all I truly expect from females anymore.
So, for now, I'd advise you all to cut yourselves off as much as possible and do all the pining and commiserating you want, till you're blue in the face. Feel it, and try to keep awareness (meditation, when combined with this, done daily, will, I promise you, shave off significant time on this--I practice the Zen technique--if even for a minute a day to start, whatever, just gradually up the amount you do if you're able or inclined) and you'll sift through the myriad desires that pop up, and see how some of them don't conflict and you'll find alternatives.
Been there, done that and so have most of the other men here. Zen and Buddhism is religious nonsense for people who dont want to believe in a real Creator of this place we call the Universe, IMO.
I nearly forgot, there are probably a host of objections, the bulk of which would be 'but i'm ugly, girls are like this, blah'. Well, to elaborate on what girls like. Well, unless you have a serious case of confirmation bias--quite possible, by the way--you'd see, at least now and then, a perfect stunner with an ugly, stupid, loser of a man (by our judgmental definitions)? Would a fat, unattractive, uncharismatic stoner with no money or prospects be able to reel in a model quality woman? Well, I know a few people like this, personally, so I can guarantee you this isn't some presumption I made about a man in the street, it does happen. The question is why? She obviously sees something in him. I'm trying to convey that the most attractive part of man is intrinsic--it's just there, and he needs no accomplishments to show it off. The problem is, unaccomplished men in our society have been trained not to let their guard down until they have some successes to fall back on. You guys all have what it takes to seduce a woman, if only you took off the thick, intimidating armor which hides your interior.
Utter nonsense! I had a very good friend who has since passed on. He was ugly, but a real good guy and could chat up women quite well, but his luck with women was worse then mine and he had no real LS issues to deal with, like I did.
You can't dismiss the men here who say that they are ugly. There are reasons why women get with ugly men and it's usually money or fame. I rarely, if ever, have seen a truly ugly man with a very nice attractive looking woman, so get off your high horse and embrace the reality that they deal with everyday.
You're not honest with women, nor do you respect them. You hide who you are, because you want them to be tricked into liking you. As you see it, no woman could like you for you, so you hold back, at least to some extent a part of yourself, and women can sense this lack of openness and low self-esteem, and avoid it like the plague. If you were honest and respectful of women, you'd convey exactly who you were, completely vulnerable and ready to weather the pain of a wounded ego and pride. If she liked you, you'd know she liked you for you. If she didn't, you know that deep down, it could never have worked. You're not for everybody, but you're someone's dream man--once all the bullshit that you instinctively keep going is scrapped, obviously. You may not realize what it is yet, don't worry, as worrying about it is another thought/feeling that is trying to speed up a 'solution' to manipulating your world.
I smell a rat here, gentlemen. So when is your next period due, honey? Or are you post-menopausal now?
BTW, many/most women are very dishonest with men, yet YOU expect men to bend over and kiss their asses for some pussy or, even harder to find, love?
Dream on, sweetie!
A key thing to note in this negative sort of behavior is that it relies on the external world for happiness. I think that 'love-shyness' as you call it, is a perfectly viable strategy for attaining some external assurances and pleasures. If it didn't have a benefit, you'd have stopped this avoidance long ago. In order to move past it, not only will you have to see clearly the limitations, but you're still going to want to feel those feelings that you got when you were doing the whole love shy thing. You have to find out how it benefits you, and you have to find something that is not externally rooted (things that are convey a fleeting feeling, and require a constant series of reassurances, oftentimes being successively harder) but internally. That peace of mind you get when you're fully engaged in an activity, for instance, that stillness and peace you may or may not be familiar with when you're not letting your thoughts control you--whether they be 'good' or 'bad'.
Well, coming form a woman what else could we expect? You are, simply put, saying "get over it", here dearie.
Needless to say, that would all be very nice, but how does an ugly man get over being ugly and unattractive to
What you have posted is basically insulting to me, on an intellectual basis alone, and I would assume also to many of the posters here who have never been with a member of the opposite sex, namely a girl or woman, like I and some few others here have been. Guess what happens when you insult someone who grew up being insulted by the opposite sex?
They either die inside, or in life, sooner or later or they get toughened up, like myself, and they get angry at all the
mind-games and other nonsense that women have played on them, for no rational reason whatsoever.
BTW, you dont want to know what I am like when I am really, truly angry, sweetheart, trust me on that one.
Thats why you women fear male anger so much: oftentimes, its _JUSTIFIED_ anger that you have brought upon yourselves.
That is also why I stay as rational and logical as possible, most of the time, being the decent human being that I am.
I almost certainly structured this rambling stream-of-consciousness poorly, so I'd recommend you go over it a few times to let this barrage of probably new ideas sink in.
Give it some time, and effort, and you'll eventually be able to say 'what the hell' and approach a woman and openly tell her how you feel, or meet women in your social circle, or, I suppose, an internet dating site (where women probably do largely base their judgements on looks, as there's no real emotional impression to leave on them). I know how impossible it is to do when you've got the programming running your head, but when you see it for yourself running IN your head, doing the same stupid thing when you see someone who is possibly the girl of your dreams, you might be eventually frustrated and moved enough to move in. I promise you it won't be as traumatic as you think when you've gradually started finding internal solutions for you sense of self-worth. I forced myself to ask women for the time, years ago, with an overwhelmingly negative response then, because of my real motivations (improving with them, gauging their responses, hoping to force a good one, etc). When I find myself approaching now, my only motivation is to tell them how I feel about them. Rather than 'create escape routes, hold back because that part's weird, make sure those strangers nearby don't hear' I am just plain honest and willing to accept any humiliation, as I have found some new sources to have a solid emotional base (you could and should do the things you want to do but make excuses for--watch the excuses, and do: especially if you're vaguely nervous but find you can overcome it--clean your room even if you're afraid of the commitment or boredom, join a club, sport, read more often, groom, I don't know, whatever--these little conquests will involve you and build self esteem)
Of course you: "structured this rambling stream-of-consciousness poorly". That's how most women "think" these days.
I would like to recommend two books to convey these ideas better than I could
A book called End Game by a guy named LoGun--he's also got a free pdf on his site that is worth checking out
The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle--I only just started, as per someone's recommendation, but the first few chapters are already worth the money
I would recommend that you leave this forum now and never come back, Girl. We know what you are now, so your game is up and you are done here.