I'm in love with a love-shy man

The_woman · **Posted:** 27 May 2012, 14:22

Quote:

On the other hand, when I have suggested taking the initial meeting slow as in just starting with a meeting, lets say hi face to face and no other pressure AT ALL he sounds genuinely disappointed and doesn't appear to like that idea at all.

This I recognice

But the road to sex begins with one step. I realize that the first step takes one closer to sex. If I read Gilmartin he says that there is a lack of knowledge how things start and evolve and leads to sex.

I saw a conversation in another thread that the guy started with talk about positions, that would have scarred me of. Not that I dont like sex in different positions but, that i wonder if such a guy would have sex with me or "to" me.
This travelling part from A - S (like in sex) is all about getting comfortable with the guy and making sure he won't run you over like a truck. Leaving you wondering "what hit me"

The_woman · **Posted:** 27 May 2012, 14:27

Fonduman wrote:

he thinks he's ugly, he thinks he'll lose you if you realise. by putting off meeting, in his mind he is keeping you from leaving him.

Of course

latorradora · **Posted:** 27 May 2012, 14:32

Fonduman wrote:

The_woman wrote:

Fonduman wrote:

no, it's not generally caused by abuse. not overt abuse. its a mode of belief.

Now, unless I know for sure that the girl won't mind me expressing it, any expression of sexuality is as difficult as it is for you to parade around naked in a busy place. Harder, really.

And the mode of belief is that she will sooner or later reject you?
How does one convince you that this is not going to happen?

rejection isn't really the essence of the fear, though it's easy to confuse with it. I'll use an analogy I've mentioned before.
Imagine you're invited into someones house. They offer you tea. You demand steak. Now, this person is really nice, you know you will get what you want. But if you're a normal person, you would never do that, you would feel ashamed at yourself. LS is similar in that the expression of sexuality in itself is unconsciously seen as inappropriate and shameful. If you're 100% sure that the other person won't be bothered by the expression, then it can be possible to express. But even a little uncertainty can firmly hold you back. If you do express interest, and get rejected, I think often you aren't as devastated by the rejection as you are the negative response to the display of your feelings, which reinforces the shame cycle.
That's why I have been able to send some messages on online dating, and the rejections didn't really affect me that much. It's a sexual context, it's expected and appropriate to express interest. Like going to a steakhouse :lol:

Great analogy, Fonduman:D

I agree with this here as well. I also think this thing with fear and rejection can really be more of a chemical thing than just a "oh I feel afraid" thing. My man is WAY TOO SMART AND LOGICAL to act on the thought of fear. It goes deeper with him, the more I observe this and think on it, I think it has to be chemical. He KNOWS I will not reject him for anything. He KNOWS there is nothing to be afraid of. But there is something deep in his psyche, deep in the folds of his brain that has a chemical reaction to the anxiety of this. He is so damn smart that I always think of his brain overclocking and why would it be ANY different for that amygdala of his to be any different? His brain is razor sharp. I wouldn't be surprised if his memory is photographic or at least something scientists would be interested in. He can remember exact dates/times/day of the most insignificant events. He is very keen on sound. I swear he could hear a pin drop across town. He can notice the most minute changes in flavor. His observation skills are mind boggling. Maybe that part of his brain is ALSO so very sensitive that it would appear to be over reacting? I do know he is trying. The fact that the fear wells up in him so badly that it renders him unable to move (dear in headlights) even though his rational brain has no problem with the truth that he is really NOT in that much danger. I imagine this is maddening to him because he is such a logical being. When I said in another thread to Ethno when he commented that "you don't have to be comfortable to do something" and that being something exactly that my friend would say I know it maddens my friend that he cannot in this situation go by what he knows to be true.

I also struggle with anxiety. I used to be on xanax for a few years. I haven't been on any medicine for a couple of years. This past year I started hitting the bottle a little bit to ease my pain. Not a good idea because I think I started to rely on it a little too much and it sure wasn't helping my situation. So for the past month I have been researching supplements for the brain. I am going to be my own guinea pig here and try to find something that helps. I got three orders this month from Amazon and my cabinet looks like a drug store :lol:

I've got GABA, Dopa Mucana, L-theanine, -L-Phenylalanine, Alpha GPC, L-tyrosine, fish oil. While I am taking these to solve my brain weaknesses, I am actively looking for natural ways to calm his flaming amygdala. Unfortunately, most of the stuff I am finding mostly has to do with eastern mysticism (third eye kind of thing) and there is NO way he is going to allow me to hocus pocus him :lol:

latorradora · **Posted:** 27 May 2012, 14:52

Fonduman wrote:

have you considered BDD? could explain it. he thinks he's ugly, he thinks he'll lose you if you realise. by putting off meeting, in his mind he is keeping you from leaving him.

I do very often consider this. I have firsthand experience with this myself so I do know what it feels like exactly. From the time I was 13-18 years old, I had anorexia nervosa. I can tell you that at 88 pounds soaking wet, with my knees being the widest part of my legs and my hip bones jutting out sharply and being able to count every one of my ribs that when I looked in the mirror, I saw FAT. I had bruises on my hip bones and my ribs from me constantly banging on them to make sure I could feel bone and not fat. While I am of normal weight now, I still do not like my body at all and I suffer much apprehension of him actually seeing it too. I am also very afraid of him looking at it and saying "Ugh. No way" even though my rational mind absolutely doesn't believe he is that way and he feels terribly insulted when I have mentioned my own fears about that. "Do you really think I'm that shallow" and he sounds so hurt. While I understand and have been told that I am attractive, I do not see that in the slightest. I do my very best to avoid the mirror at all costs, only looking if I am putting on my makeup. I will avert my gaze when walking past one every single time. I do not like to look at myself at all.

I have told him so many times how handsome I think he is. This pleases him but I do not think he believes it himself at all. He gives me his teeshirts that smell like him to wear to bed and when I tell him that Im surprised that women don't follow him home how good he smells he scoffs as if I'm insane. I recently came across a picture of him that he accidentally left on the phone he gave me and it was startling because it was a picture of him looking at himself in the mirror. The look on his face was absolutely heart breaking. It was so very apparent that he did not appreciate what he saw:( Was he taking that picture for me? How many has he TRIED to take that he could never send:( I felt ashamed like I had seen something that I wasn't supposed to but it did open my eyes that there was something very deep pain in him. I wish I knew who had hurt him so badly to make him think this. I would rip her teeth out.

Fonduman · **Posted:** 27 May 2012, 14:58

i have a low opinion of my appearance myself. don't think it's severe enough to become a disorder, though. and it's probably warranted. i've only been told once by a girl that she found me attractive, and she was drunk at the time :rofl:

latorradora · **Posted:** 27 May 2012, 15:00

The Woman- Just a little OT... I was thinking of something that I saw a few months ago that interested me. It thought you would get a kick out of it too:) Thought I would leave it here for you to look at.

http://techland.time.com/2011/11/09/glo ... ce-lovers/

latorradora · **Posted:** 27 May 2012, 15:08

Fonduman wrote:

i have a low opinion of my appearance myself. don't think it's severe enough to become a disorder, though. and it's probably warranted. i've only been told once by a girl that she found me attractive, and she was drunk at the time :rofl:

Awww, well I have heard all the jokes about men sleeping with women when they were drunk and waking up to find them butt ugly when the night before they looked like a dream girl but either I am a weird one(perfectly possible) or women are different.

When I get drunk, I lose my inhibitions and speak the brutal truth.

If you have BDD tendencies than it is more than likely that what you see in the mirror is absolutely not what others see.

The_woman · **Posted:** 27 May 2012, 16:08

latorradora wrote:

When I get drunk, I lose my inhibitions and speak the brutal truth.
.

I sign to that.

Mitchell · **Posted:** 27 May 2012, 18:05

latorradora wrote:

When I get drunk, I lose my inhibitions .

something a lot of women have in common

Mitchell · **Posted:** 27 May 2012, 18:08

latorradora wrote:

I am going to be my own guinea pig here and try to find something that helps. I got three orders this month from Amazon and my cabinet looks like a drug store :lol:

I've got GABA, Dopa Mucana, L-theanine, -L-Phenylalanine, Alpha GPC, L-tyrosine, fish oil. While I am taking these to solve my brain weaknesses, I am actively looking for natural ways to calm his flaming amygdala. Unfortunately, most of the stuff I am finding mostly has to do with eastern mysticism (third eye kind of thing) and there is NO way he is going to allow me to hocus pocus him :lol:

doesn't sound that smart to do these things on your own.

Has he seen a doctor/specialist about this? I realises this might be very expensive where you live (over here the public health care system would at least cover a lot of the cost)

Mitchell · **Posted:** 27 May 2012, 18:13

Fonduman wrote:

if we were able to approach girls we didn't care for, we could cold approach.
in fact, the opposite is often true. the more me know and care for someone, the easier expressing feelings is, generally, because we trust them more.

in the case of a prostitute, it's difficult but possible, because they want business. they expect you to express sexuality around them. it is an environment in which it is appropriate. the difficulty arises in the fact that she may not really want you to express your sexuality, may secretly be disgusted.

I'm able to reciprocate when a woman (i like) initiates or with an escort because i'm certain there will be no rejection.

But when initiating myself i have to push/force myself. In some cases i'm able to do this, when i see enough signs that i will be succesfull and when i'm motivated enough but in some cases i'm unable too (for example when there are negative sigsn or no signs at all).

Fonduman · **Posted:** 27 May 2012, 18:17

Mitchell wrote:

Fonduman wrote:

if we were able to approach girls we didn't care for, we could cold approach.
in fact, the opposite is often true. the more me know and care for someone, the easier expressing feelings is, generally, because we trust them more.

in the case of a prostitute, it's difficult but possible, because they want business. they expect you to express sexuality around them. it is an environment in which it is appropriate. the difficulty arises in the fact that she may not really want you to express your sexuality, may secretly be disgusted.

I'm able to reciprocate when a woman (i like) initiates or with an escort because i'm certain there will be no rejection.

But when initiating myself i have to push/force myself. In some cases i'm able to do this, when i see enough signs that i will be succesfull and when i'm motivated enough but in some cases i'm unable too (for example when there are negative sigsn or no signs at all).

yeah, I can reciprocate fairly well myself. escort is a little different because you would have to call them to initiate it lol. they wont reject you of course, but I would still worry about their feelings about the situation that were hidden.

Small Pink Blob · **Posted:** 27 May 2012, 18:20

latorradora wrote:

And the last thing I can think of is that MAYBE he has a hormonal imbalance? His sexual INTEREST seems just fine, even very very healthy to me but maybe is the DRIVE different? He does have other features that would lead me to believe that he more than likely does not have high levels of testosterone. If this is the case, it has worked in his favor aesthetically because he is very nice to look at. And I wasn't kidding in another thread when I said that men who have this issue going on might very well be an evolved breed of man. BETTER BY FAR. I cannot tell you how many times I have secretly thought to myself when being forced to observe an obviously testosterone overloaded male in action "Jeez, buddy, can you turn it down a notch? The need for caveman tactics is so last (prehistoric) age." So refreshing it is to be with a man that thinks with his brain and not his crotch. I have read that sometimes this is also an issue with men that have LS. Not all. Some.

One of our members here (Renaissance Man) often brought up the testosterone deficiency issue as a prominent factor of LS. He may have mentioned possible solutions at some point.

latorradora wrote:

On the other hand, when I have suggested taking the initial meeting slow as in just starting with a meeting, lets say hi face to face and no other pressure AT ALL he sounds genuinely disappointed and doesn't appear to like that idea at all.

He "sounds" disappointed, "doesn't appear to like" the idea... Does he always voice his approval/disapproval for things so indirectly, without saying why or communicating more clearly? I'm with Fonduman on this one, this sounds like more than LS, it's passive-aggressive behavior. Have you considered that, on top of the romantic anxiety and all, maybe he just likes to toy with your feelings? Maybe he wants to assert himself and get validation, like most people, but he only knows the wrong way of doing it (through emotional manipulation), because he didn't develop the skills that most young people learn in their teenage years (confidence, assertiveness).

latorradora wrote:

I recently came across a picture of him that he accidentally left on the phone he gave me and it was startling because it was a picture of him looking at himself in the mirror. The look on his face was absolutely heart breaking. It was so very apparent that he did not appreciate what he saw:( Was he taking that picture for me? How many has he TRIED to take that he could never send

A year ago, when I needed to take a picture of myself to use in dating sites... it took 40 tries. I know because that's the maximum amount of pictures that my camera could hold at max resolution. :lol:

After I had chosen the right picture, I had to "fix" my nose and my eyes in Photoshop for it to look bearable, and I would have repainted it completely if I hadn't felt guilty about it.

latorradora wrote:

Fonduman wrote:

have you considered BDD? could explain it. he thinks he's ugly, he thinks he'll lose you if you realise. by putting off meeting, in his mind he is keeping you from leaving him.

I do very often consider this. I have firsthand experience with this myself so I do know what it feels like exactly. From the time I was 13-18 years old, I had anorexia nervosa. I can tell you that at 88 pounds soaking wet, with my knees being the widest part of my legs and my hip bones jutting out sharply and being able to count every one of my ribs that when I looked in the mirror, I saw FAT. I had bruises on my hip bones and my ribs from me constantly banging on them to make sure I could feel bone and not fat. While I am of normal weight now, I still do not like my body at all and I suffer much apprehension of him actually seeing it too. I am also very afraid of him looking at it and saying "Ugh. No way" even though my rational mind absolutely doesn't believe he is that way and he feels terribly insulted when I have mentioned my own fears about that. "Do you really think I'm that shallow" and he sounds so hurt. While I understand and have been told that I am attractive, I do not see that in the slightest. I do my very best to avoid the mirror at all costs, only looking if I am putting on my makeup. I will avert my gaze when walking past one every single time. I do not like to look at myself at all.

That's... touching.

I wish I had anything to say.

Mitchell · **Posted:** 27 May 2012, 18:40

Fonduman wrote:

Mitchell wrote:

Fonduman wrote:

if we were able to approach girls we didn't care for, we could cold approach.
in fact, the opposite is often true. the more me know and care for someone, the easier expressing feelings is, generally, because we trust them more.

in the case of a prostitute, it's difficult but possible, because they want business. they expect you to express sexuality around them. it is an environment in which it is appropriate. the difficulty arises in the fact that she may not really want you to express your sexuality, may secretly be disgusted.

I'm able to reciprocate when a woman (i like) initiates or with an escort because i'm certain there will be no rejection.

But when initiating myself i have to push/force myself. In some cases i'm able to do this, when i see enough signs that i will be succesfull and when i'm motivated enough but in some cases i'm unable too (for example when there are negative sigsn or no signs at all).

yeah, I can reciprocate fairly well myself. escort is a little different because you would have to call them to initiate it lol. they wont reject you of course, but I would still worry about their feelings about the situation that were hidden.

thats true that you have to initiate the contact, luckily i have a healthy sexdrive that motivates me in such cases so i can do it

andrewharlan · **Posted:** 27 May 2012, 20:48

The_woman wrote:

I think Love - shynes is a reaction to repeated trauma. As said before, shy introvert intelligent men react like this.

I'm not necessarily implying correlation nor causation. I'm just stating facts.

I'm love shy. And I've suffered repeated trauma. Some of it took the form of me being sexually molested. Some of the other trauma was much worse.

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