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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2010, 04:01 
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firebird85 wrote:
I understand you're point, but defending women isn't really a crowd favorite here

Well alright but it seems like a lot of us would like someday like to have a complete relationship with some woman or many. To me it still seems less than useful to cultivate a negative attitude towards women after all many oof us have been mistreated by men for our LS condition. I would say more men have mistreated me for LS than women.
I like Barbaratus have found women to have been a help to me I might have ended up living in an adult home if not for the intervention of several women.

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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2010, 10:28 
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Yeah, just read this post and it depressed me. Unfortunately it certainly rings true. Men are expendable in today's society. Shy and quiet men are often considered worthless - because they are not manly enough.

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"He saw towers and walls in nighted depths under the sea, and vortices of space where wisps of black mist floated before thin shimmerings of cold purple haze. - H. P Lovecraft "The Haunter of the Dark".

"There has been no genetic change since we were hunter-gatherers, but deep in the mind of modern man is a simple hunter-gatherer rule: strive to acquire power and use it to lure women who will bear heirs; strive to acquire wealth and use it to buy affairs with other men’s wives who will bear bastards . . . Wealth and power are means to women; women are means to genetic eternity.

Likewise, deep in the mind of modern woman is the same hunter-gatherer calculator, too recently evolved to have changed much: strive to acquire a provider husband who will invest food and care in your children; strive to find a lover who can give those children first-class genes. Only if she is very lucky will they both be the same man . . . Men are to be exploited as providers of parental care, wealth and genes." - Matt Ridley "The Red Queen"

"Humor won’t save you; it doesn’t really do anything at all. You can look at life ironically for years, maybe decades; there are people who seem to go through most of their lives seeing the funny side, but in the end, life always breaks your heart. Doesn’t matter how brave you are, how reserved, or how much you’ve developed a sense of humor, you still end up with your heart broken. That’s when you stop laughing. In the end there’s just the cold, the silence and the loneliness. In the end, there’s only death." - Houellebecq


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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2010, 13:41 
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Erebus wrote:
Shy and quiet men are often considered worthless - because they are not manly enough.


On that subject, here's part of an article about the author mentioned earlier. Here, she disguises herself as a guy to experience dating from the other side:
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Vincent even dabbled in the art of picking up women and agreed to wear a hidden camera for "20/20" during her exploits.

She was quickly reminded that in this arena, it's women who have the power, she said.

"In fact, we sit there and we just with one word, 'no,' will crush someone," she said. "We don't have to do the part where you cross the room and you go up to a stranger that you've never met in the middle of a room full of people and say the first words. And those first words are so hard to say without sounding like a cheeseball or sounding like a jerk."

Vincent encountered some pretty cold shoulders in her attempts at the bar, but she did manage to go on about 30 dates with women as "Ned," mostly arranging them on the Internet.

Vincent said the dates were rarely fun and that the pressure of "Ned" having to prove himself was grueling. She was surprised that many women had no interest in a soft, vulnerable man.

"My prejudice was that the ideal man is a woman in a man's body. And I learned, no, that's really not. There are a lot of women out there who really want a manly man, and they want his stoicism," she said.


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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2010, 05:09 
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Desolate Outcast wrote:
On that subject, here's part of an article about the author mentioned earlier. Here, she disguises herself as a guy to experience dating from the other side:
Quote:
Vincent even dabbled in the art of picking up women and agreed to wear a hidden camera for "20/20" during her exploits.

She was quickly reminded that in this arena, it's women who have the power, she said.

"In fact, we sit there and we just with one word, 'no,' will crush someone," she said. "We don't have to do the part where you cross the room and you go up to a stranger that you've never met in the middle of a room full of people and say the first words. And those first words are so hard to say without sounding like a cheeseball or sounding like a jerk."

Vincent encountered some pretty cold shoulders in her attempts at the bar, but she did manage to go on about 30 dates with women as "Ned," mostly arranging them on the Internet.

Vincent said the dates were rarely fun and that the pressure of "Ned" having to prove himself was grueling. She was surprised that many women had no interest in a soft, vulnerable man.

"My prejudice was that the ideal man is a woman in a man's body. And I learned, no, that's really not. There are a lot of women out there who really want a manly man, and they want his stoicism," she said.


D.O., where can we find the full article on this?


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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2010, 12:03 
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The OP's post is possibly my favourite thing I've ever read on this forum. Very well said, sir! Life is massively easier as a woman. Not as much pressure to earn a high wage; to conform to liking sports, beer, etc; to take the initiative in finding a partner, etc.

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The reason why the world is in chaos,
is because things are being loved,
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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2010, 20:32 
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There are ways women can have it hard in modern (European and Euro-derived) society, but they're rarer and society has a way of sweeping those women out of sight. You have to understand that part of the entitlement issues women in this part of the world isn't just a matter of women being naturally evil, but because society does select for those traits (just as men are encouraged to be jackasses and intolerable shits), and those who do not conform are severely punished. I've heard some horror stories about what happens to women who don't spread for the males in positions of high authority (and this kind of thing is systematized, not like the "pervy boss wants to sleep with a hot employee" sexual harassment that we're trained to believe is the only form that matters. you don't EVER hear of these guys being brought to trial or anything of the sort.)

As a male, if you're exploitable, you're going to be exploited. If you're a user and have those traits that most of the people at the top of the current world order have, life as a male is very, very good. If you're useless to everyone, you're more or less left to your own devices to scurry for whatever living you can, which in this world usually means swallowing some major horse-shit. Regardless of status, as a male there's less pressure to conform to popularly accepted tastes, and only the most deluded of social engineers would try to deny men small hobbies. I've never got shit for not being into sports/beer, except from people of already questionable integrity that are best ignored.

Being male also has the advantage of being better at a whole lot of things, whereas most of a woman's positive traits only matter in the sexual mating arena. The promise of easy sex and superficially preferential treatment (as long as you're a "good woman" - i.e., a bitch) isn't worth that much to me. If I had full choice in the matter, I would have asked to be born neuter so I could set myself apart from this race to oblivion and be off to do my own thing (having chosen to present myself as a male simply because it's more convenient to do so). Unfortunately that could leave the door open for social experimentation as happened to that poor man who suffered a botched circumcision and had a female identity imposed on him, but that again is a matter of a society that has become so ill such that it needs to impose sexuality and sexual abuse routinely to remain intact.


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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2010, 22:56 
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Adam82 wrote:
The OP's post is possibly my favourite thing I've ever read on this forum. Very well said, sir! Life is massively easier as a woman. Not as much pressure to earn a high wage; to conform to liking sports, beer, etc; to take the initiative in finding a partner, etc.


Society worships women and puts them on thrones but men are left out in the cold. Like a playful dog who wants someone to throw the frisbee or jump on, after a while they get annoyed and they lock him up in a cage or put a muzzle on him and tell him to go away. Women are accepted no matter who they are or how they are, and they don't have to do anything to find a partner to be happy.

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we would call it sexual and psychological abuse". -Steve Hoca

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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2010, 01:39 
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LonelyMan wrote:
Desolate Outcast wrote:
"My prejudice was that the ideal man is a woman in a man's body. And I learned, no, that's really not. There are a lot of women out there who really want a manly man, and they want his stoicism," she said.

Quote:
D.O., where can we find the full article on this?

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Entertainmen ... id=1526982

Her experiences were interesting but I can't agree with all her conclusions and interpretations.


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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2010, 01:44 
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HaventDoneThatAnd55 wrote:
Gilmartin also seems to have a chapter on "Envy of female privileges" too.


He wrote about Envy of Female Privilege back in the '80s! So imagine how much worse it must be today.


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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2010, 03:31 
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Desolate Outcast wrote:
HaventDoneThatAnd55 wrote:
Gilmartin also seems to have a chapter on "Envy of female privileges" too.


He wrote about Envy of Female Privilege back in the '80s! So imagine how much worse it must be today.

Well the women I was interested in the eighties are now in their fifties :mrgreen:
I don't waste much time on women below forty cause there aren't many of those giving me much of a look :lol:

Have you looked at Mike Pilinski's book Without Embarrassment you really should.

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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2010, 04:25 
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The point is that you can't really say one way or another whether it's better to be male or female. No one can. You have no frame of reference. The only people who could even try to take a crack at it are post-op transexuals, and even then not really due to a host of issues they tend to claim.

... but it's pretty easy to look at the laws and social norms to find out that women literally have so much privilege and a carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they want and get away without the least bit of scrutiny or consequences to which they cry foul when they are actually held to the standards of a man. Men are massively disadvantaged in every first world country today because of the widespread feminist indoctrination of man=bad woman=good which has effected those very laws and social norms in every aspect of life. It went unchallenged because our fathers and grandfathers who simply let it happen with the outdated and dangerous way of thinking-- "chivalry" that assumes women can do no bad.


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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2010, 04:52 
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Have you looked at Mike Pilinski's book Without Embarrassment you really should.


You should read Gilmartin's book.


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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2010, 07:27 
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Desolate Outcast wrote:

If you thought I was blaming all women for my troubles, then you misunderstood the posting and I'm sorry for not being clearer. I was just describing how imbalanced society has become, to the point that I would rather be female -- a not uncommon reaction for love-shy males, according to Gilmartin's book.

The idea of men being ignored and not women was shown in the book "Self-Made Man" in which the lesbian author disguised herself and lived as a man for 18 months to see what it was like:
Quote:
"As a woman, you couldn't walk down those streets invisibly. You were an object of desire or at least semiprurient interest to the men who waited there, even if you weren't pretty." But in her makeshift man drag, she found that the same stoop-sitters and bodega loiterers didn't stare at her. "On the contrary," she says, "when they met my eyes they looked away immediately and concertedly and never looked back."


(btw, her conclusion was that if being male used to be a privilege, it certainly isn't any longer.)

You're right, others have problems too, some even more serious than love-shyness, which should remind us to put our own problems in perspective, but that is a whole other discussion.


You've convinced me to get this book. Thx!

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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2010, 08:16 
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Quote:
"As a woman, you couldn't walk down those streets invisibly. You were an object of desire or at least semiprurient interest to the men who waited there, even if you weren't pretty." But in her makeshift man drag, she found that the same stoop-sitters and bodega loiterers didn't stare at her. "On the contrary," she says, "when they met my eyes they looked away immediately and concertedly and never looked back."


Yeah a male has to be VERY good looking to get the same level of attention as an UGLY or OBESE woman gets...and that's not even hyperbole.

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PostPosted: 09 Sep 2010, 00:04 
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Len wrote:
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Have you looked at Mike Pilinski's book Without Embarrassment you really should.


You should read Gilmartin's book.

I scanned it, too me concerning myself with every detail in that book is like commiting oneself to staying trapped. Better off working with DBT, Positive Psychology, Mindfulness than spending time on why you got where you are. I decided that Pilinski was on the right track when he brought up the topic of Active Listening. Active listening is very important skill to learn in the psychology/mental health field and useful in ones general life. Not much point in begrudging women's essential reproductive instincts hence the utility of positive psychology.

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