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PostPosted: 11 Nov 2008, 08:12 
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It has been a little over a year since I joined the site, with the intention of beating LS or at least bringing it to a level I can work around. I have done better than I thought I would, but not as good as I hoped I would (does anyone?) and now it's time to write down the year's events. It would make me happy if one or more of my fellow LS on this board can try actions like this and do as well or better than I have done.

In one of my earliest posts on here, I noted that I had, largely by accident, had a grand total of two girl-friends, by a loose definition. On more careful consideration, I don't think the second one counts, even by the loosest definition. We didn't get as far as sex, the whole thing was a mess from the get-go and probably a major mistake for both. It was around the time that blew apart that I joined this site.

First, I read Gilmartin's book, and I found it very enlightening. More than once as I read the sections where he wrote about the traits and living conditions that correllated with LS, I thought he could have almost been standing behind me as he wrote it. (I skipped the chapter on astrology, though.) When I read the section about how the problem might be beaten with practice dating, I thought "I wish they had something like that around here." I started thinking about how I might try something like that by myself, without the organized group described.

One thought in particular spurred me to action more than anything else. Without decisive action, I would, after having come so close, revert almost overnight to the state I had spent almost the whole three years gone by previously: a few steps above a shut-in, crippled by LS, and likely to stay that way permanently, while the piece of shit that I had been allegedly seeing would, sooner rather than later, move on like nothing had ever happened and find her next victim.

I considered trying to act in real life to be a lost cause, but the internet was right at my fingertips. I decided to look just for sex at first, partly to bring my woefully inadequate level of experience to at least within shouting distance of the average for a man my age, and partly because the summer's debacle destroyed any patience I might have had for female bullshit. I had been at least somewhat flexible and forgiving before, but I thought that if I should be lucky enough in future to find a regular girl friend (not just sex), I would dictate the terms of the relationship and she would either accept them unconditionally or take a hike. My way or the highway ... fuck me or fuck off ... There would be NO REPEAT of the past summer's misadventure, during which I let her walk all over me, piecemeal, and in the end still walked away with nothing. If I sound bitter, angry, and hateful, it's only because I am.

On the first day of December, I joined two internet dating sites. One was mainstream, although it had an option for sex only, and the other was dedicated to sex only. At first, I had difficulty filling out the profiles. I wasn't sure what to put down. It took hours of thought and several tries to come up with something that met the minimum characters requirement and didn't contain any obvious bullshit or fillers. I came up with (paraphrased) that I was looking for sex, possibly in a "friends with benefits" arrangement, that I did not want to take part in anything too unconventional (no BDSM, no threesomes, etc.) and that age and appearance were unimportant. (When it's sex only, a vagina's a vagina, after all.) I deliberately selected a poor quality picture to scan in, and deliberately used a tool that came with my computer to make the quality even worse (mainly by exaggerating the contrast, making the sunlit side of my face overly bright and the shadowed side almost black) to reduce the chance that I might be recognized. I didn't degrade the picture so much that it would have been rendered useless to any women I sent it to, though.

For a week or so, I browsed the profiles indecisively. I made notes of which ones were worth pursuing, which ones weren't, and which ones were likely fakes. If the photographs were a little too good - as in they didn't look like they'd been taken by the average Jane with no special training in photography - I was suspicious. If anything in the profile's words didn't look quite right either (not sure how best to put this into words, more of a gut feeling than anything) I was also suspicious. I eliminated any ones that said they wanted to do something I wasn't willing to do (like go partying beforehand) or, conversely, any that said they were looking for something I couldn't offer.

Then came the hard part, typing that first message. Drawing inspiration from some articles I'd read on the internet, I came up with a few principles to guide me. One was be brief, and not to go into any rambling monologues (like what I'm typing now, haha.) Another was to mention something - anything - in her profile, that way she knows I took the time to read it, and write no bullshit, ever. Even with these in mind, the LS tried its hardest to derail my efforts. I sat in front of the computer, in peace and quiet, with all the time I cared to take to type a message, and it took forty-five minutes to come up with three short sentences, during which my hands shook so badly I could barely type. When I hit "send", it felt as if the weight of the whole world had been lifted from my shoulders. Then I felt a chill, because it was 61 degrees indoors and I was drenched in sweat. I thought that it was lucky that I was living in the age of computers, because if I had so much trouble doing that remotely, how could I have ever been able to try something like that in real life?

I was surprised and gratified when, a few days later, I received a reply. She was tentatively interested, but wanted to chat. So I taught myself to use an instant messenger program (something I'd never used before) and used it to talk to her. Even though it was in real-time, I found it easier (relatively) because the first step, writing that message, had already been made, and it became easier still over the next few minutes. To summarize, she asked me if I could get there and if I would use a condom (yes to both), then a few minutes of idle chatter about nothing, then she said she to come over on her next night off work.

I did so, even though I'd started to get nervous again now that the chips were down. I kept thinking on the way over "If I embarrass myself, it will kill off what little confidence I've managed to build up and make another try elsewhere that much harder." - and other unpleasant thoughts. I tried to reassure myself by thinking "First time after such a long break is likely to be awkward, if I can pull this off it will get easier." Awkward it was, but after enough trying I did manage to break a three-year drought and double my number of sex partners in the waning days of 2007.

Gilmartin was right: it gets much easier with practice. I asked her almost without ANY difficulty whether she'd be up for another such meeting another day, and she said probably. On the drive back home I flipped the bird in the general direction of where the woman from the previous summer lived (late at night, no other drivers to think I was flipping them off, haha)

I slowly began going through the lists on the dating sites and writing to more women, a little at a time. The messages I sent were all fairly similar, but none were identical. I soon realized that I had gotten beginner's luck on the first try, because only about one in five messages generated any response at all. Between sending messages and working, I used the instant messenger program for its other purpose, to enter chat rooms. I figured I could try for sex or possibly a regular girl-friend in there, practice talking in real-time (if not face to face) as I did so, and kill some time bantering with random people about any topics even if nothing else happened.

I did meet a few women in there who were interested in a regular boy friend/girl friend arrangement, although nothing came of it. My newfound inflexibility and bullshit-intolerance probably saved me from something as bad or worse than what I'd escaped from the previous summer. I did have a promising first chat with one woman, but the next day it became apparent that she did not match what I wanted in a girl friend, and I told her so, quite bluntly. I had never rejected outright a woman before, and oh boy did it ever feel good.

Another chat in late January led to one date with a different woman, one in which I had, in what was a first for me, deliberately worked toward and asked for, as opposed to having it happen by accident as another almost five years earlier had done. It didn't work out; she seemed even more nervous than I was (hard to imagine!) and after we had a pizza she said she wasn't interested in pursuing it further, so I drove her home and that was that. I was not terribly bothered by it though, because I had three things in mind: (1) even among normal people, the majority of first dates are also last dates, (2) I had not committed any major gaffes that I was aware of, so I had not sabotaged the date with my own idiocy or LSness, and (3) I had a fallback position in the sex sites, knowing that what I'd done once, I could at least in theory do again.

As it happened, that route bore fruit again the next week. Another woman was sufficiently interested to chat, and she asked me how I had come to be on the site. While we were chatting, several things that I could have put in my profile came up in conversation. In hindsight, they seemed quite obvious and I oughtn't to have overlooked them. It gave me something to pad out the profile a little bit. I added what I should have had the presence of mind to think of the first time: that peace and quiet with no distractions, a no stress, no pressure environment, was essential.

We did meet, but it turned out to be a once and done thing, she stopped answering my messages. Oh well, I thought, I'm still doing better than just a few months ago, and there are more out there. I met the one from December again shortly afterward, and it was much less awkward the second time around.

In late February, I met a third woman from the sex sites, with minimal awkwardness for the first meeting and almost none afterward. While I was seeing her, I received a vindication of my type-no-bullshit strategy. She said in plain English that she had been a little uncertain at first, but my upfrontness and directness when talking to her had convinced her that I was worth a shot. Honesty is still the best policy, it seems. I saw her about once a week for over a month, but then she too did a disappearing act, for reasons known only to herself. After three messages went unanswered I went back to the list.

In early May, I met the one that I am still seeing regularly. We got along well enough that we have continued meeting once or twice a week for over half a year. This past summer, we agreed to see only each other, that plus a VD test made it possible to forgo the condoms. We sometimes get pizza or something but nothing much more than that. I consider this arrangement satisfactory for the foreseeable future, so I have shelved, for the time being at least, any plans of finding a regular girl friend.

This brings me to the present day. The LS is contained, and I aim to preserve the current arrangements as long as possible, and the sites are still there in the event that it becomes no longer possible. The LS is not beaten though, I still find it difficult to imagine approaching a total stranger IN REAL LIFE. The thought does not make me as nervous as it once did, but I still do not feel that I would be able to do so. To put it analogously, I might never walk, but the internet is my crutch.

So....good luck to any of my fellow LS who decides to try something like this. Even though most are probably looking for a regular girl friend, I would encourage them to go the sex-only route for a short time at least, the experience will be valuable, if nothing else. If it works, or not, for anyone else, please type it up!

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PostPosted: 11 Nov 2008, 15:47 
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Thanks a LOT for the post! How old are the women and how old are you (ball park figures)? Are you muscular, and tall? What are some of the things that you would recommend placing in one's profile and in one's first email?

Thanks! I am sure I am not the only one who would find the answers to the question above to be useful.


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PostPosted: 12 Nov 2008, 01:38 
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You know. I think this sort of thing is actually worth trying. Because let's face it. Women know when a guy is after them for sex. Since apparently I feel that I can't enter a long term relationship due to the fact that my virginity is hampering any possible relationships from the get go (I might come off as a perv, might get too needy, might get oneitis again, girls are scared off by older virgins, etc) I think this should be the way to go. The only problem is that whereas ieatboogers apparently had some prior experience to the first woman he met from the sex site, most of us have none. So would our chances by any better on a sex site? Plenty of questions to ponder.

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PostPosted: 12 Nov 2008, 03:53 
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What does a guy like me do who is in it for the really long haul and doesn't care about sex? I can't just log on to UnconditionalLove.com and get someone. (Rhetorical question) Why do I keep loving without needing to get anything back (though I would like to)? Why can't I move on?

Is unconditional love real and have I found it?
(don't answer that)


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PostPosted: 12 Nov 2008, 09:23 
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interesting post. I too have pondered the "sex only" thing as having potential benefits. I actually took it further by thinking about going the "fetish" route. Although that adds complexities, my mind is so warped, damaged and corrupted that "normal" sex doesn't even really get me motivated anymore. But that's a different topic.

The things I'd be concerned about are:

- which sites can you actually meet women off of? Do they cost anything? I don't mind paying a small monthly fee but I don't want to be throwing money down the toilet. Nor do I want to be getting scammed/used. I've read in reviews of adultfriendfinder and alt.com that getting a meet as a guy can be difficult if not impossible.

- what kind of thing would "hook" you onto a woman? Particularly in regards to being love-shy. My sense from ieatboogers is to be as straightforward as possible. If you are a virgin, say so. Would women go for a "no take charge guy" if you tell her that's what you are? Maybe they feel safer around him? I'm thinking that there must be lots of creepy PUA types they run into, where a LS would be a nice change of pace? Most "normal" guys probably aren't as desperate as us, thus won't sink to using those sites. They either have gf's, or are in a friendzone relationship somewhere.

- the looks issue. I have to wonder if a woman isn't getting sex IRL if there isn't a reason. Granted, going for only sex means one can lower your standards considerably. After all, you aren't entering into a serious commitment, and contrasted with NOTHING, what have you got to lose? But if you are repelled by her for whatever reason, that'd be an issue.

- would she be willing to be "friends" with you? For me this would be a must. She'd have to at least know me well enough to know I collect disability checks so scamming me for a child would be pointless. lol. In all seriousness, I'm not going to stick my penis inside a vagina unless I know *something* about who she is as a person. Besides, better communication = better sex. Also it'd be nice to have somebody to talk to and do things with that aren't sex related. But maybe I'm getting too much into "relationship" territory?

yea, lots to consider. But it's encouraging to hear of some "success". Thanks for sharing!

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PostPosted: 12 Nov 2008, 12:04 
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Contrags on your success


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PostPosted: 12 Nov 2008, 15:41 
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Me on the other hand, as soon as I found out about LS, what progress have I done this year to improve my situation? Abso-fucking-lutely nada! I became complacent and was finally able to accept and rationalize the notion of being single until the day I die. I think and feel I have already tried hard enough in the past (my ways, PUA, and typical male way) and arrived to the conclusion that it is futile to put up anymore effort if I already know what the outcome will be.

In this day and age, couples are now getting married and/or having kids. There are at least seven people I know or once knew that are married or going to get married. None of them haven't even turned 20 or 25 yet! Not that I care about marriage because there is no chance in hell I'm falling for that financial death trap! It's bad enough I fell for credit cards and loans. :lol:

What I'm trying to say in that paragraph above is that as far as I can see, I already am TOO LATE!!! Image

All I can do now is work towards achieving my goals and right now, it would probably be best that I have attachment to no one to drag me down anyway. I've lived 23 years without ever being in a relationship and been in "hostile environments" (with respect to love-life issues). If I can survive that, I can survive even longer periods of time without one then. The notion of relationships is all in my head and it's all in my head no thanks to society and the social construct! :evil:

Shyguy was talking to me about unconditional love being able to love without being loved in return. I told him that I can't accept that because I cannot and do not love without getting any love back in return. I wish to retract that statement. There is something I love that cannot love me back... MACHINES!!! :twisted:

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Last edited by Cold Heart on 12 Nov 2008, 17:52, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 12 Nov 2008, 17:24 
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ieatboogers: great to hear anybody on this forum having success of any kind with women (it makes me a bit jealous though lol:D)

I made a profile on a facebookish-type site and actually a few cute girls clicked me... unfortunately, I havent had any success at all. With most of them, it didnt go past a short conversation or two. With one really cute girl I talked for over a few weeks online, and then she stopped visiting the site... she last visited her profile few months ago, and then I kinda lost interest too, and stopped visiting my own profile, despite being clicked on. I guess she was interested in me, we had really good and funny conversations, but even online, I was too shy to make a move, ask her for a drink or something... either I blew it or something happened to her, I dont know. This myspace/facebook/tagged/ sites are bullshit - at least from my current experiences. People click on you out of boredom and add you as a friend, or vice versa, maybe a comment here and there and thats it. In the end you have numerous virtual contacts just so you can say you have them, and that´s it. Or maybe I just gave up too soon, Im sick and tired of trying to talk to a cute stranger, spend days chatting and living with hope only to be "virtually dumped" soon after that.

I should have made a profile on a proper dating site like you, at least people here know exactly what they are searching for. Problem is, I have already browsed over these dating sites, and guys are in vast majority unfortunately...

maybe a bit personal question: what kind of girls did you find on these sites for sex - were they your age, younger, older?
Im warming myself into the idea of finding myself a MILF this way (or basically any girl older then me, that finds idea of being with a younger man strictly for sex interesting)


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PostPosted: 12 Nov 2008, 20:40 
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Hey all,
ContentedMan wrote:
Thanks a LOT for the post! How old are the women and how old are you (ball park figures)? Are you muscular, and tall? What are some of the things that you would recommend placing in one's profile and in one's first email?...

Glad you enjoyed it.
I'm in my late 20s, the women I approached ranged from slightly younger than me to a whole generation older (I am not too picky.) The ones who responded were all either in their 30s or 40s.
I am fairly muscular, because of my job, but just pudgy enough to hide it. I'm of average height.
For the LS especially, I'd recommend putting down that a no-stress, no-distractions, relaxed environment is a must, since we apparently need all the help we can get overcoming anxiety. In the email I'd recommend being polite but direct and to-the-point, try to find that balance between beating around the bush or pleading (which sounds unconfident or desperate) and being too pushy or demanding (which might make them perceive you as dangerous.) Also, check your grammar and spelling, if there's one thing in this day and age that will make your message stand out among dozens or hundreds of others, it's consistent, proper English. (Is my cynicism showing again?)

Rammspieler wrote:
...Women know when a guy is after them for sex. Since apparently I feel that I can't enter a long term relationship due to the fact that my virginity is hampering any possible relationships from the get go...I think this should be the way to go. The only problem is that whereas ieatboogers apparently had some prior experience to the first woman he met from the sex site, most of us have none. So would our chances by any better on a sex site?...

If it will help you discard the albatross, go for it. It really does get easier with practice; some experience will help reduce anxiety and if you do meet a potential girl friend at some point, you'll be able to tell her truthfully that you have some experience, even if not much, which is better than none at all. Also, since you have a fallback position, you're less likely to get oneitis. You'll be able to carefully consider whether the potential girl friend you meet is really right for you, knowing that if you decide she is not, you won't have to do without sex. In other words, you can do to them what they routinely do to us. Won't that be nice?

empty_caldera wrote:
...which sites can you actually meet women off of? Do they cost anything? I don't mind paying a small monthly fee but I don't want to be throwing money down the toilet. Nor do I want to be getting scammed/used. I've read in reviews of adultfriendfinder and alt.com that getting a meet as a guy can be difficult if not impossible.

- what kind of thing would "hook" you onto a woman? Particularly in regards to being love-shy. My sense from ieatboogers is to be as straightforward as possible. If you are a virgin, say so. Would women go for a "no take charge guy" if you tell her that's what you are? Maybe they feel safer around him? I'm thinking that there must be lots of creepy PUA types they run into, where a LS would be a nice change of pace? Most "normal" guys probably aren't as desperate as us, thus won't sink to using those sites. They either have gf's, or are in a friendzone relationship somewhere.

- the looks issue. I have to wonder if a woman isn't getting sex IRL if there isn't a reason. Granted, going for only sex means one can lower your standards considerably. After all, you aren't entering into a serious commitment, and contrasted with NOTHING, what have you got to lose? But if you are repelled by her for whatever reason, that'd be an issue.

- would she be willing to be "friends" with you? For me this would be a must. She'd have to at least know me well enough to know I collect disability checks so scamming me for a child would be pointless. lol. In all seriousness, I'm not going to stick my penis inside a vagina unless I know *something* about who she is as a person. Besides, better communication = better sex. Also it'd be nice to have somebody to talk to and do things with that aren't sex related. But maybe I'm getting too much into "relationship" territory?

yea, lots to consider. But it's encouraging to hear of some "success". Thanks for sharing!

I used plentyoffish.com, which is free, and AFF, which is free to join but you can't really do anything without the monthly fee. I paid the monthly fee until June, after I'd met the current one, then I allowed it to lapse back to a free membership. It might be difficult to meet people from there, but it's not impossible. Just don't be surprised if only a small percentage of messages you send generate any response at all, and don't be surprised if not all of those end up leading to a meeting.

I did not mention LS or anything related to it in my profiles. If you are a virgin, I don't know whether that will help or hurt you to mention it. You might kill off interest in some women, or you might meet one or more who would be happy to help remedy the situation. I'm glad I didn't have to ponder this one.

As for looks, obviously you shouldn't approach a woman you're repulsed by. I don't care about looks that much, unless she's absolutely hideous. I didn't have a problem with the appearance of any of the women. Keep in mind that plain looks is not the only reason they join these sites. Some women work odd shifts, or have family or other obligations that make it harder to meet people, or maybe they just don't like going out. Or maybe they're shy.

I too specifically put down friends with benefits, as opposed to just have sex and leave. All of the women I met wanted to chat first, which is just common sense anyways, for both of us. I'm not worried about impregnating them, since I've had a vasectomy. Even if you haven't, the condom won't break if you don't abuse it.

jubi wrote:
...maybe a bit personal question: what kind of girls did you find on these sites for sex - were they your age, younger, older?
Im warming myself into the idea of finding myself a MILF this way (or basically any girl older then me, that finds idea of being with a younger man strictly for sex interesting)

The women I met ranged from a few years older than me to about 20 years older than me. I don't care about age. Some of them didn't care either, some of them said that they weren't entirely comfortable with it at first but became more so after our chats convinced them that I had the mentality of someone closer to their age.
Amusingly enough, I saw one woman a little over 40 whose profile said she was specifically looking for men even younger than me! It said 25 was her ironclad upper limit; I took the sentence at face value and didn't write to that one.

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PostPosted: 12 Nov 2008, 21:18 
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Cold Heart wrote:
Me on the other hand, as soon as I found out about LS, what progress have I done this year to improve my situation? Abso-fucking-lutely nada! I became complacent and was finally able to accept and rationalize the notion of being single until the day I die. I think and feel I have already tried hard enough in the past (my ways, PUA, and typical male way) and arrived to the conclusion that it is futile to put up anymore effort if I already know what the outcome will be.

In this day and age, couples are now getting married and/or having kids. There are at least seven people I know or once knew that are married or going to get married. None of them haven't even turned 20 or 25 yet! Not that I care about marriage because there is no chance in hell I'm falling for that financial death trap! It's bad enough I fell for credit cards and loans. :lol:

What I'm trying to say in that paragraph above is that as far as I can see, I already am TOO LATE!!! Image

All I can do now is work towards achieving my goals and right now, it would probably be best that I have attachment to no one to drag me down anyway. I've lived 23 years without ever being in a relationship and been in "hostile environments" (with respect to love-life issues). If I can survive that, I can survive even longer periods of time without one then. The notion of relationships is all in my head and it's all in my head no thanks to society and the social construct! :evil:

Shyguy was talking to me about unconditional love being able to love without being loved in return. I told him that I can't accept that because I cannot and do not love without getting any love back in return. I wish to retract that statement. There is something I love that cannot love me back... MACHINES!!! :twisted:


Well, cold heart, your heart is as cold as that which you love, machines.


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PostPosted: 12 Nov 2008, 21:30 
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machines can love you back by doing exactly what you tell them to do. Granted, they don't always do that, but their success rate is MUCH higher than women in such regards.

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Volkulja wrote:
I have taken my time to read empty caldera's posts on LS and two things are clear as day:
a) he is totally insane
b) he is incredibly intelligent.


pickypicky wrote:
Newsflash: EVERYONE acts in their own interests and do things to get the approval of others. The idea that men because they appear to be good fellows are calculating people who do every little thing to get people to like them is feminist propaganda.


03/03/10 + 03/18/10

NEVER FORGET!!!!


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PostPosted: 12 Nov 2008, 23:08 
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shyguy wrote:
Well, cold heart, your heart is as cold as that which you love, machines.


I guess I did pick a good handle for this forum after all. :wink:

empty_caldera wrote:
machines can love you back by doing exactly what you tell them to do. Granted, they don't always do that, but their success rate is MUCH higher than women in such regards.


Well said! :lol: :)

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Cold, you reminded me of a joke.

6 REASONS WHY COMPUTERS MUST BE FEMALE
1. As soon as you have one, a better one is just around the corner.
2. No one but their creator understands their internal logic.
3. Even your smallest mistakes are immediately committed to memory for future reference.
4. The native language used to communicate with other computers is incomprehensible to everyone else.
5. The message "Bad Command or File Name" is about as informative as "If you don't know why I'm mad at you, then I'm certainly not going to tell you".
6. As soon as you make a commitment to one, you find yourself spending a third of your paycheck on accessories for it.

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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2008, 18:23 
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ieatboogers wrote:
Cold, you reminded me of a joke.

6 REASONS WHY COMPUTERS MUST BE FEMALE
1. As soon as you have one, a better one is just around the corner.
2. No one but their creator understands their internal logic.
3. Even your smallest mistakes are immediately committed to memory for future reference.
4. The native language used to communicate with other computers is incomprehensible to everyone else.
5. The message "Bad Command or File Name" is about as informative as "If you don't know why I'm mad at you, then I'm certainly not going to tell you".
6. As soon as you make a commitment to one, you find yourself spending a third of your paycheck on accessories for it.


Ha ha! Awesome! :lol:

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Maybe is NO!
A yes can become a NO!
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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2009, 18:53 
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*** UPDATE ***

Over the past few months, we have been drifting more and more towards a boy friend-girl friend arrangement, as opposed to a FWB arrangement. She's mentioned that she would be interested in actually becoming boy friend and girl friend. I might take her up on it.
Perhaps finding this site was even luckier than I thought.

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