Hello! Thanks for letting me into this community

Just one thing to get off my chest...

In regards to the "PUA (pick-up artistry), "game," and our stance" section in the Love-Shy.com FAQ, as a pickup artist (in training), I find it offensive when PU game is described in a blanket fashion as "sleazy". I think what the author of the FAQ failed to recognize is that there are two types of PUA game: outer game and inner game. Beginner PUA's start with the canned material and tactics of outer game and then progress towards becoming more naturally attractive (natural PUAs - who are confident at a core level and also know the structure and science of game - a deadly combo).

I have been in the field training as a PUA for a year (stopped for financial reasons but looking to get back into it) and I can confirm that PU does work (my peak session: I've out-alpha'd an ex-NFL player AMOG (alpha male of group) and got a kiss close with my target within 10 minutes). And I didn't even practice that much when I was a PUA. Most of the time I was on PUA forums or reading/watching PUA books/videos while being afraid of getting out there getting my feet wet and getting rejected. At a house party, after being rejected by one set, I stopped approaching sets and sat on the steps of the basement stairs shedding man-tears for the whole night.

However, two years after my PUA hiatus, I've noticed that I'm still not truly confident as confidence was just a mask that I wore every friday night (along with canned material and peacocking), not part of my core being. It's not because PU doesn't work, it's because I haven't gotten to the level where I start improving my inner game. I was still at the level in which I'm using training wheels (outer game), that's why my inner game hasn't improved.

But I was definitely more confident overall when I was out regularly gaming girls 2 years ago than now.

In my opinion, I think PU can help a lot of LS dudes here. Just got to look past the stereotype of PUA's brought on by shows like "The Pickup Artist" and see that PUA is diverse, ranging from Mystery Method to Direct Game.

I'm not going to advocate PUA game heavily on this forum b/c there's plenty of PUA forums out there for that. I think there should be some great non-PU advice on here, which is why I'm here, b/c I'm suffering from general social anxiety (though I have learned to mask it very well).


This was me when I was a PUA

People like you make me sick.

Thanks for the warm welcome

Hey, diaoman, don't be offended. Many guys here, including me, respect PUA methods and believe they can help.

Dead fuckin' give away. I'm not wasting my $3Gs on a "confirmation" from a clown who I don't even KNOW!!!

I did not spend any money on PUA seminars or programs. Just studied and practiced straight up Mystery Method, which can be gotten online for free. For the first time in my life, I felt a taste of what it was like to have power over my love life. To get girls who would normally ignore you to react to you, let alone touch you or qualify themselves to you, is already a huge milestone. I did not think I would ever have that capability before I went into PU.

To the guy who mentioned about arrogant, condescending PUA's who troll on these boards...those are not true PUA's. To be arrogant is opposite of what a true PUA does. Being arrogant is a subconscious indicator that you want approval and validation from others, which PUA's, who are alpha males, do not do.

PU's not about wearing funny hats or saying the right lines. Those are just tools for you to use when you're a beginner and don't know what to say to girls. PUA is all about inner game. You don't have to buy PUA products or seminars to improve your inner game.

My point is, LS people are really handicapping themselves by dismissing PU without even trying it (with effort).

The key phrase is "...there are no magic lines or routines or techniques or universal ways to push peoples' buttons. All there really is is a bunch of methods and techniques to make you APPEAR confident, funny, intelligent..."!!!

Say anything else and you're just FULL OF SHIT!!!

OMG, you out-alpha'd an ex NFL AMOG!
(Acronyms kill baby dolphins.)

Seems like such a mechanical process, all that stuff. Felt like reading some military strategy. Maybe it helps some guys though, as it may help some to put some distance between them and their "target", as you put it.

You are exactly right and if you read my entire post you would see that is the thing I'm trying to say. What you're associating PUA with is Outer Game, which are the "magic lines, routines, and techniques" you're referring to. It's a necessary step for beginners with no game but it has given PU a bad name, with shows like VH1's The Pickup Artist. What should be acknowledged is that the goal of PU is to become a natural, so that one is truly confident from inside and out.

No. I read your post in it's entirety. There's a HUGE difference between trying to be confident and trying to become a PUA (Inner game, outer game... beginner or not, I really DON'T GIVE A SHIT). Why? Because being a PUA is all about the payoff; getting into the habit of hitting on girl after girl after girl (as if It's a "sport"). "Practice makes perfect" right? Well, for guys like YOU, IT IS!!! But for guys like ME, it ISN'T!!! The more time you spend hitting on women, the more you degrade YOURSELF!!! If you have no respect for yourself and just want to get fuckin laid, then that's YOUR problem. As for me, I'm an altruist. And as bad as my life gets for me, you could physically put a gun straight to my temple and order me to become a PUA; You might as well pull the trigger, cause I ain't moving.

Now it's great that you have high moral standards. But PUA's do too...you know, the motto of PUA is to "leave a woman better than you've found her". Those who do otherwise are not true PUA's.

The truth is, women want sex..they just don't want to feel like a slut during the process. What is it about fulfilling women's desires without making them feel trashy (unlike some guys) immoral?

Nice guys are not at moral high ground. They pretend to be friends with a girl while secretly wanting to get in her pants.

To quote incel200 this is one of the main reasons I don't listen when women complain about objectification as they constantly objectify themselves for fun, easy sex and profit.

Unlike you, I'm incapable of being selfish so you and I will NEVER see eye to eye on this matter. Again, I'm a man who shows deep and genuine concern for the welfare of others. I'm also I'm an Incel with Schizoid tendencies. Furthermore, I'm an EXTREMELY ectomorphic 26-year-old Eurasian male (more than likely suffering from a form of Hyperthyroidism), who stands at 5'8" tall, weighs 112 lbs soaking wet, has a waist size of 26 inches and has less than 4% body fat. You're barking up the wrong tree buddy boy.

The tone of your motto hints at treating the woman as an object, something to "pick up" and leave, albeit in better condition. This is well-meaning, not what I would dub "high moral standards". And the term PUA refers to the methods used by a person, independent of morality. If a PUA is successful and can "pick up" a woman within a few minutes of attempting but does not abide by said quote, are you going to deem him a "not [-] true PUA"?


Interesting way of putting it. I cannot attest to it's accuracy but it certainly seems to stand on some valid ground, though I gurantee this is not so with all women.


No. Nice guys are "nice" by our definition because they have the innate quality of being "nice". I open doors for people, pick up something when they drop it, and offer to carry heavy objects (like 30"+ inch screen T.V.'s for example) for people if it looks like they need help. Does this mean I want to get into the pants of that 78 year old woman who is bent over, can hardly look me in the eye, but smiles warmly upon my doing so as she shuffles along slowly? Additionally, I have been "nice" to girls in the past who were my peers. No such thought came in my mind; it's just my mental programming to do so, plus I get a satisfying feeling afterward most of the time (though by no means does the action diminish if the "feeling" isn't felt).

Not this again.

Dude, you have some good points about anxiety but you kinda ruin it when you just mindlessly parrot things like that.

I think PUA is one of many good ways to get guys motivated to act and take on their first steps, but it falls apart when you discuss it or think rationally about it. I like the idea of taking the bare basics of the PUA mindset and building upon that, but I don't think it's a good idea to adhere too closely to any specific doctrine. If you're going to defend some aspects of it, great, but it looks to me like you're getting taken in way too deep.

These "systems", whether it is PUA or some other pseudoscience, tend to have a mild brainwashing effect on people, and your lingo is proof of that ("sets", "targets", "game"). Self-help doctrines have that nasty habit of systematizing things that should be natural, and I think that's a dangerous thing for born overthinkers like the kind of guys who would need something like PUA. It indulges their need for systematic understanding, instead of encouraging them to keep it under control like they should.

Regardless of his other posts, I really liked TM112's video.