I was checking out Dr. Brian Gilmartin's wiki page and saw that his recommended treatment plan for love shyness included "Practice Dating" and "Sexual Surrogate Therapy".

Does anyone know of any place that actually offers these services? I think they actually sound like a great idea and I'd be willing to try them.

With a substantial amount of digging, and an even more substantial amount of money (more than $8000usd from what I've heard), they can be found. In the U.S., I hear they are more common on the west coast. The process may help those with 'intimacy issues' but I don't see it as a viable option for those who *can't* meet women due to extreme shyness or the inability to get past women's bitch games. I highly doubt these services alone would be enough to make the average LS male less afraid of jumping through hoops to meet a woman.

In short; If you are not too shy to approach women but are instead 'hesitant' after you start seeing one and have a large amount of disposable income it might be a good option for you.

I was working with a somewhat well-known sex therapist and she tried to find a sex surrogate. They are rare outside the west coast.

I don't think a sex surrogate would help. I mean, it might help a little, but not much. If I spent tons of money on a sex surrogate, I would probably be the same afterwards.

Of course, I haven't seen any data on this issue, though. It would make an interesting study.

I don't see sex surrogacy as being a viable option for a man who cannot get women to like him/feel attracted to him. There are a lot of men who are shy, passive, socially awkward, ugly, poor/broke, short, fat, bald, of a minority race or just plain unlucky. Surrogacy would only serve as an overpriced, over-regulated form of prostitution for these individuals.

Whether he likes it, hates, it, or is afraid of it, any man can learn how to deal with sex when it comes his way. A better solution would be to eliminate all conditions that allow women to have total control over our ability to find love/sex. Researching things like 'anti'-Viagra and ceasing all special treatment/considerations for women would be a good place to start.

Hey Hopeless_Romantic,

Let's do a change of pace... What result(s) are you expecting to get from the surrogacy program?

If I my speak on the subject?

It's a huge space between hooking up with a girl at a bar, and to start a relationship with whom one has fallen in love with.

On the research I've read on the subject, it starts with eyecontact, women smileing playing with their hair and other signals and after that the man (most often) approaches.
Now is the second part where the male shall prove he is socially apt. That is; he is not an antisocial person not able to interact and adapt to others. He is well behaved, caring and concerned with the woman's well being, showing her she is important for him
This part of the mating game is because of one doesn't want to raise a family with the wrong person, and a woman doesn't want to get hurt.

This I believe must be extremely difficult for individuals with social anxiety because this is a scrutiny.

My thoughts is (and excuse me if I am stupid here) wouldn't it be good to practice the gender role with a woman. How to make her feel cared for with little gestures so that it wouldn't be a total new teritory when the right one shows up?

My thought is, since you don't have practice since childhood, and youth, when would you? The sex part isn't the biggest issue here, more get comfortable in the gender role, recieving good feedback would be a good experience?
And good experience is good with phobia right?

Since I am a women, many men treat me as I am a women, so I am comfortable in that role. But one has to bee seen as a woman by somebody first. This I think would be beneficial - to be seen as a man and treated as a man.
As a man should be treated by a Lady with kindness and respect, something we otherwise only show to someone who earns it.

I don't know but social anxiety is a matter of feeling inept, and a lack of ego strategies. A good therapy should include encouragement and a little know how - how to smooth things to fall back on when really nervous


Just a thought I had from reading Gilmartin where he says there is a lack of map from interest to an actuall relationhip.

Seems like a sort of rehearsal. I'm an actress, and I know the importance of rehearsal. HOWEVER,

When performing in the theatre, it is possible to be OVER rehearsed. This makes the actor inflexible to changes, and the scene seems robotic and unnatural. Also, it sounds pricey.

You've got a damn good point here. Love-shyness has been categorized as a sub-class of social anxiety disorder. Surrogacy would mess with they guy's head if he had the same issues as S.A.D.

I could be wrong, but the whole process seems unnecessary to me. Does anyone have any input on how exactly this sort of thing would be helpful? Especially to those who are simply to shy to ask a girl out...

Well, an idea I had I took from the world of Martial Arts. Martial originates from the word Mars, The god of war. So I thought what about Venus, the Goddess of lurrv, and came up with a framework for something I named the Venutial arts.
Like martial arts I reckoned the entire courtship process could be divided up into specific excercises. When you learn martial arts, you practice these excercises in a strict order. The excercises at first make no resemblance to fighting. This is intentional because the instructor wants you to forget about nervousness and apprehensions and concentrate on the particular styalised move. You pass from belt to belt. I thought in Venutial arts you'd have a badge denoting achievement.
You would have a class of males and females in equal proportion. The instructor would order you into pairs and you would go through the excercise. The training would be as rigorous as learning karate. Obviously I can't give lessons or wright the syllabus because that would be the equivalent of someone who doesn't know how to fight trying to write a cyllabus for Juditsu.
Someone with the social skills would have to break it down so that the "moves" could be comprehended, practiced and then assembled.
There's a heeluva lot of dough in it for the one who comprehensifies it.

Unorthodox... but I like this concept.

My only concern is this; Just as it is impossible to create/learn a style of martial arts that can counter all other forms, it may prove difficult if not impossible to know every 'trick in the book' with regard to social skills. Reason; people lie, get confused and/or change their minds. Also, physiological responses can not be easily faked/imitated (pupil dilation, blushing pheromonic response, etc.) It may prove similar to a paintball/airsoft player joining the army and being a lousy shot because he never learned how to handle muzzle rise and recoil.

Any ideas?